Northern Railway Company, the view of the men, so a correspondent informed him, was "That in spite of the Board of Trade's repeated request for the abolition of excessive hours, little or no notice is taken of them. Indeed, it seemed as if the company answered the Board of Trade by putting their finger to their nose." said, to reduce the staff. The consequence was that the guards had to do the porters' work and had their own to do as well. The guards had also to do shunters' work as well as their own work, and the staff at the station had to load and unload goods, as all the trains were mixed trains. The hours that were On the morning of Wednesday, 27th worked on that railway without Sunday February, a shunter named William work were often fourteen hours and Green was fatally injured at Doncaster twenty-five minutes, or twelve hours and while performing his duty. Green went forty-five minutes per day. There was to work at six o'clock p.m., and had been a difficulty in getting the men to lodge on duty eight hours and forty-five minutes complaints about long hours for fear of when the accident happened, and he dismissal. The North-Western was frewould have worked for twelve hours had quently held up as a railway that tried it not been for his misfortune. The to prevent long hours, but the returns whole of the shunters at Doncaster were sent to the Board of Trade were not eight-hours men, yet the greater portion always accurate. From the Blue-book of them had worked twelve hours a day issued last July he was satisfied that for the last ten months, and if any of some of them were "cooked." He had them complained they were bluntly told proofs that the returns of this country that if they did not like it they could leave were inaccurate, and he had produced it. The shunters' duties were more to the predecessor of the right hon. dangerous than those of any other men Gentleman at the Board of Trade proof except the seamen; and was it not that the returns which the men were monstrous that any railway company called upon to make were inaccurate, and should work such men for twelve hours a that when they had been fifteen hours on day? It might be said that the company duty they had to return twelve. For paid the men for the four extra hours instance, a London and North-Western they worked, but that did not relieve goods guard signed on duty at 4.50 p.m. them of the extra strain which rendered on the 23rd of January and was in charge them unfit and liable to accident. He of a train until 5.35 a.m. the next day; hoped the President of the Board of Trade he was thus twelve hours and forty-five would inquire into the hours worked by minutes on duty. According to the rules the shunters at Doncaster, and go fully of the London and North-Western the into the question as to whether it had not man had to make out a long hour return. been the habitual practice of the company The next day he was met by his inspector, to work the men for twelve hours a day. and such pressure was brought to bear It was said that the railway companies upon him that he falsified his return and never interfered with their men when they booked in the depot as off duty at 4.50 made complaints; but he knew better. a.m., when he did not arrive till 5.35. There was just a bit of a hint by a foreman The extra forty-five minutes was allowed to some of the men that somebody to go on his next period of duty, so that had sent a complaint to Bell, who had he was not deprived of any pay, but the sent it on to the Board of Trade; and if it extra time was carried forward to his were known who that man was it would next week's pay. That was contrary not be well for him. In fact, the men to the orders of the London and Northwere consequently afraid of lodging com- Western, and was done to screen the plaints. On some of the Irish and Scottish local officials and so that it should railways things were just as bad. For not appear in the return to the Board instance, they had the Donegal Railway, of Trade there had been any exceswhich had been amalgamated with the sive duty. He thought that something Great Northern Railway of Ireland and should be done to put an end to this the Midland Railway of England. Since extraordinary state of things. What was those latter companies had taken over the advantage of the Hours Act of the Donegal Railway several porters had 1893 if it was not put in force more been dismissed in order, as the officials rapidly and made operative at a greater Mr. Bell. He would give | sent on 12th November, 1906. There were speed than at present? in the interest of the men themselves as well as of the travelling public. Although some of the men might like to work overtime, if they were prepared to sacrifice their own lives they must not be permitted to jeopardise the lives of the travelling public. It was illegal for a man to attempt to commit suicide, and if he was arrested for an attempt to do so he was penalised; and if these men desired practically to commit suicide by working overtime they must not be allowed to endanger the lives of others. In his experience as a railway man, possibly he had worked as long hours as were now worked, but it must be Railway men would never complain of working overtime during a fog or snow storm, and he had given instructions in his office that no complaints of any excessive hours of work during such times should be sent on to the Board of Trade. What they asked the right hon. Gentleman to do was to call for special Returns for these particular centres and not to allow the Return to be thrown over the whole system. It was no relief to Sheffield, where they were working fifteen hours a day, to know that the men in London were not working more than twelve. If the President of the Board of Trade would call for Returns for the month of January, he would find that there had been undue overtime, although the weather was normal. He hoped they had made the case sufficiently strong to in make the right hon. Gentleman accept the hon. Gentleman found at a later stage of Resolution and to act upon it. If the right the session or early in next that he had to take stronger measures the House would not hesitate to support him. He had much pleasure in seconding the Resolution. remembered that in the days of which he spoke the duties of railway men were not anything like so hard as they were now. The duties of railway servants were becoming more and more arduous every year, and they had a right to press the President of the Board of Trade to put an end to the present intolerable state of affairs. The President of the Board of Trade should instruct his inspectors to look through the books in which the servants of the company signed "on" and "off" If he had not the power to do that he must obtain it, because until he obtained and used that power the Act of 1893 would not be effective. The inspectors of the Home Office visited factories and workshops, and if they had a right to go into a factory or workshop and see the way which the work was carried on, was there any reason under the sun why the same system should not be carried out in regard to railways? There were able men at the Board of Trade, and he had confidence in the officials of that Department, and he was confident that the present state of things would be remedied if they had greater powers conferred upon them than they had at present. If the Act was in effective, would the right hon. Gentleman take steps to amend it? If it was effective would he see that the Department performed its duty in administering it? When a Board of Trade inquiry into the cause of an accident was held, and he sent one of the officials of his organisation to report to him, the railway company officials objected to the man's being present. He contended, however, that he had as much right to see that the men in the organisation with which he was connected were represented as the railway companies had to see that their officials were represented. He thought that the power to order this should also be obtained by the Board. Until the powers which he had indicated were obtained he was sure that the Hours Act of 1893 would fail to be effective. No one could stand up in his place in the House and justify the long series of accidents which were detailed by his hon. friend who moved the Resolution and the long hours to which he had alluded, and he hoped the right hon. Gentleman in his reply would let them know what he intended to do. Mr. Bell. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House disapproves of engine drivers, firemen, guards, and other classes of Railway employees being compelled to be on duty during excessive hours and being allowed but short intervals of rest, and urges upon the Government the necessity of applying more vigorously The Railway Regulation (Hours of Labour) Act, 1893, and, if this is inefficient, to prepare an Amendment to the Act."--(Mr. William Edwin Harvey.) MR. STUART WORTLEY (Sheffield, Hallam) said that, as a Member representing one of the divisions of Sheffield to which reference had been made, he rose at this early stage of the debate to put the case on behalf of the railway companies. He welcomed the observations of his hon. friend the Member for Derby, whom they had always found a most reasonable man, and he might say the same of the hon. Member for North-East Derbyshire, who, from the evidence of his quality given in his speech that evening, they might hope was only at the beginning of a hon. Member had, however, slipped out a distinguished Parliamentary career. remark which gave the House the key of the whole position. This could not be a case, as suggested by the hon. Member, The of grasping shareholders wishing to wring evidence could be brought forward make it his business to inquire. In reference to the accommodation at Grimsby, he asked the House to receive the statement with caution, and he would make it his business to see whether the causes were permanent and chronic, whether the state of things was remediable by the exercise of greater care, or whether it was a case of exceptional pressure which might be due to particular causes. As to emergency men, of course, the man who was imperfectly trained ought not to be paid so high a wage as the man perfectly trained. The hon. Gentleman had been able to quote only one instance where an untrained man had been employed to do work on which a highly trained man ought to be employed. *M. BELL said he had quoted the instance as an illustration of emergency men incompetent to take charge of a train. MR. STUART WORTLEY said they could not always get trained men when the emergency arose, and they could not prevent emergencies arising more quickly than had been expected. So much for his particular company. After all what was the real remedy? It was not that which the hon. Gentleman proposed, the issue of schedules fixing the hours of work. What they wanted to secure was not cure but prevention; they wanted on behalf of the companies progressiveness of organisation, by which alone they could get the necessary works, sidings, double lines, concentration yards, shunting yards, and all the things requisite to get through congestion of traffic. In the company with which he was best acquainted, and he was quite sure it was the same in the case of others, heavy works were in progress, and they hoped to be able to bring them into operation in the course of a few years; and he was perfectly certain that those works would result in a much greater improvement than would arise from any number of schedules which Parliament might issue. They could make maximum hours in factories, mines, and workshops, where the men were all concentrated, but on railways the employees were often in distant places, and there were perpetually disturbing circumstances which made it Mr. Stuart Wortley. impossible to arrive at that fixed standard of employment which would entirely get rid of the evil complained of. Nature would inevitably defeat all such arrangements in the case of railways. The hon. Gentleman who seconded the Motion said he would be the last to complain of what happened in snowstorms, in fogs, or in exceptional conditions. That was very good-natured of him, and no more than one would have expected of him; at the same time the Board of Trade Returns made no difference in respect of cases of that kind. The hon. Gentleman who moved the Motion had made no allowance for exceptional cases. MR. W. HARVEY said he had taken the month of July, when there were no storms. MR. STUART WORTLEY said he could not admit that the month of July was specially favourable to the companies, for though mineral traffic was not so great during that month, it was still large, and had to be conducted in the midst of a very busy passenger traffic, which was always exceedingly heavy in the summer months. He ventured to suggest to the House that not only were efforts being made to cope with what they all admitted to be an evil, but, whatever the effect of those efforts, it must necessarily be the purpose and desire of the companies to avoid what must be to them a source of additional expense. The remedics which which the companies were applying were not such as could operate suddenly or even quickly; still, their good effect was beginning to be apparent in some cases, and where it had not begun to be apparent, it had been delayed by causes beyond their control, but which they hoped would be eventually remedied. SIR F. BANBURY (City of London) desired to associate himself with his right hon. friend in saying that the railway companies did not desire that their men should work excessive hours. He did not claim for the companies any particularly kindly feeling; perhaps some hon. Members would not believe him if he did. But he put it on a much more solid basis, namely, that it did not pay |