however, was very valuable, the ground | Acts, and it is much the most convenient was thoroughly explored and mapped area. The great boroughs come into the out, and results given us which we set counties. The Bill divides itself into to work to consider. We found that in these four parts, and, of course, in framsome points what the Committee sug- ing the thirty-eight clauses of which it is gested was not quite adapted to the composed, I had to keep the various and ideas of the Auxiliary Forces, and par- possibly conflicting interests in view. ticularly of the Volunteer force. There- Although the clauses are numerous the fore we went into the matter with this principles are, I think, pretty clear. vory valuable material, and by making What had to be kept in view was, above certain slight modifications we have all, the social conditions of the various brought the plan, I think, into a shape Auxiliary Forces and the officers and men which will make it more agreeable to the who compose them. We had to study commanding officers of the Auxiliary and make use of the existing regulations; Forces than it otherwise might have been. it was convenient to use those whenever Put broadly, the difference between the we could, because people were familiar scheme of Lord Esher's Committee and with them. The result has been that we the scheme of the Bill is this: The have incorporated these as far as possible Committee recommended the establish- in the existing Bill. I set to work in ment of county associations composed of the first instance myself on this Bill, with ex officio, elected, and co-opted members, draughtsmen of great experience to assist and that those associations should me; and, having got the Bill into shape, practically be entrusted with the entire it was then submitted to a variety of administration and financial control of experts. It was considered in the War the territorial forces within their area. Office; it then passed into the hands Our plan in the Bill provides for the of the Parliamentary counsel, who not establishment of county associations, but only succeeded in reducing it. in leaves in the hands of the Army Council dimensions, but I think added greatly large discretionary powers as to the to the clearness of the arrangement. composition of the association, while We might have framed a Bill very shortly, providing for the adequate representation legislating by reference; but I am sure upon it of the officers of the territorial that I have best consulted the convenience forces. On the other hand, the Bill does of hon. Members by trying, even at the not do what was suggested by the Esher risk of producing a longer Bill, to make Committee, it does not confer any powers it an honest Bill, setting out the whole directly upon the associations; but it pro- story. Really I think it will serve as a vides machinery for assigning and trans- sort of handbook to the scheme. There ferring powers and duties to them, either are many references in it to sections in at once or by degrees, and not necessarily in various Acts with which we are all at the same time, and always familiar, but all the main principles, and subject to revocation if necessary. all that I think hon. Members need to In short, the military committees of the know, they will find set out in extenso. county associations will be, as it were, We have preferred that plan to the plan incorporated administrative officers, act- of producing a short Bill, which would ing under the directions of the Army have been extremely unintelligible. In Council, which will create them by framing the plan of the Bill we had to schemes suited to the exigencies of vary- avoid Scylla on the one hand and ing localities. We have carefully provided Charybdis on the other. Scylla is the that the associations shall have nothing tempting plan of trying to leave people to to do with the command and training their free devices as much as possible. of the troops, but shall be confined to We realised that the state of things in the admintisrative functions. Auxiliary Forces was such that no one who had the military interests of the country at heart could be really content with it, and we saw that a great transition into another state of things would be necessary if the Auxiliary Forces were to be put upon a satisfactory footing. Therefore we avoided anything like slackness in the formation of our plan. But, on the

MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN (Worcestershire, E.): What about the borough councils ?

* MR. HALDANE: I will explain that. We have taken the militia counties as the basis. That is done in the Militia

other hand, we endeavoured, while framing a real military organisation, to avoid doing what would press heavily upon the energies and the hopes of the various component elements in the Auxiliary Forces themselves. For example, we felt it better, even at the risk of its taking a year or two longer, to get this thing done, to make full provision for a transition period. We thought it better so to frame our scheme that it need not and would not come into operation all at once, or even in every part of the country at the same time, and that it should be possible for units to pass from the one side of the line to the other without feeling the change in any material degree. Nobody is compelled, they are invited under this scheme. By degrees, and in different parts of the country, should our machinery work as we hope it will, a transformation will be effected gradually. We think it will probably begin slowly, but that it will increase in rapidity as the matter progresses.

in danger, and the spirit of the people aroused to meet the emergency, it may be capable of great expansion. Its primary purpose, as I have said, is to defend our shores; but we feel that the organisation is of a type that, should it be copied by the great Colonies, we should have what would be for them as well as for us a second line Army that should put this Empire in a state of such security that no one would rashly dare to meddle with us. The organisation which we have framed is one from which we should reluctantly make departures in any material sense. It is a chain, its strength measured by its weakest link; if you break that weakest link the chain goes. We think we have hit upon as good a plan as it is possible to work out. In its preparation we have had the assistance of the keenest military brains, and we are satisfied that it will best satisfy our demands. Sacrifice it involves, but it does not involve sacrifice for the Auxiliary Forces alone. The Regulars have had battalions reduced; their officers have been delayed in promotion; and it is only just that in an attempt at reorganisation, giving everything its due proportion, the Auxiliary Forces should bear their share of the burden also. We trust that as the result the men of the Regular and Auxiliary Forces will come more closely together. Under the old state of things there has been in the relations of the two forces an attitude of aloofness. We hope that under our plan the Regular and the second line will feel that both are parts of a great whole working together for a common end.

Then there was another thing we had to bear in mind in our desire for the policy thorough in this matter, tempered only in the way I have indicated. We are very keenly conscious that the unsatisfactory state of the forces of the Crown is producing a certain amount of unrest in the public mind; and if that unrest is not allayed the result will be an agitation for what may be unpopular at this moment, but what might become popular under changed circumstances, and what the Government would regard as very disastrous-an organised movement for compulsion. We want all to set our minds against compulsion. Therefore, we came to the With these preliminary remarks I come conclusion that our plan of reorganisation to the Bill. There are four clausesshould be as thorough as possible, for the dealing with the County Association. policy thorough, we think, will tend to The association is essentially a business. secure us against such a movement. It body. It is in its nature a military may take time, it may require the administrative committee incorporated by co-operation of successive political parties; and acting under the direction of the but we think that if we should succeed Army Council. It will have-apart from in organising a really strong second line its president, the Lord-Lieutenant-a we should be throwing up the stoutest chairman of committee; and that chairintrenchments against attacks in the man, we hope, will be the most capable interest of compulsion, however they man in the association. It will also have might be devised. The Army we propose a secretary, a man, we hope, of thorough for the second line is not an Army that competence and interested in the work. is to be used on ordinary occasions. It The area will be the county. The is to be called on only in a time of great organisation will consult with the emergency. Essentially a Home Defence General Staff, whose duty it will be to Force, it will be so organised that, should consider how best each county can a time of stress come and the Empire be contribute its quota to the division, Mr. Haldane.

borough councils, and the universities, wholly or partly within the county. The association will have a certain power of co-option, which we think is valuable, for this reason, that one of the difficult things which the association will have to work out is to suit the representatives of the various classes, the employers, the farmers, the agricultural labourers; and it is desirable, therefore, that it should be able to co-opt representatives of both labour and capital, so that it may be in the position of obtaining the most competent advice in the discharge of its functions.

Reserve Forces Bill. representing the grouped regimental Council, after consultation, where it district in which the county is situated. appears to be desirable, with the parties There will usually be four or five counties concerned, of the county councils, the in each grouped regimental district, and each grouped regimental district is to furnish a division. We know that each regimental district contains, roughly, the material for a division; and each county will have assigned to it the raising of what best it can supply to the division. The right hon. Gentlemen opposite made the point that a county might be called upon to do that, which it could not do conveniently. That is not our intention. The plan is that the county should be called upon to do that which it can do best. Not every county can do the same thing; some can give one thing, and some another; and what will happen is that after a survey of the capabilities of the various counties in a regimental district the General Staff will make its requisition. Consequently, we hope the strain on the counties will not be great. Having furnished its quota to the division, the next business of the association is to provide for the business interest and the administration of the affairs of the force which it has thus raised. We think it is a very bad system under which at present in the Auxiliary Forces command and training are not separated from administration. It is, particularly, very hard on the Volunteer commanders that they should not have any supply organisations. But in future the association will look after all business matters. It will send up an estimate of its requirements to the War Office every year. After the estimate has been reviewed by the commander of the division and the subordinate commanders under him, the War Office will pronounce upon it; and if the Army Council approve, the association will be furnished with the funds necessary for fulfilling the heads under which the requisition for supplies have been made. The accounts will be carefully audited, not by the War Office, for we desire to avoid centralisation as much as possible, but locally in somewhat the same way as the accounts of municipal bodies are audited by the Local Govern ment Board. The association will be incorporated with power to hold property. It will contain, as at least half of its numbers, the officers representing the various branches of the territorial force raised in the county. It will have epresentatives, appointed by the Army

I now come to the president of the association. Hitherto Lords - Lieutenant have been in a somewhat decadent position. They are not so important as they once were, which we think is a great deal due to the fact that they have fallen away from their proper function, that of representing the Crown in local military matters. Of one thing we are clear, that the Deputy Lords-Lieutenant of the future ought to be people who have rendered distinguished service in this work. What happens now is that the Lord Lieutenant sends up to the Secretary of State for War the list of names which he recommends for appointment as Deputy-Lieutenants, and the Secretary of State for War simply intimates that he has no objection. But in future only those will be approved of who have done good work in the organisation of the local forces of the county; and, though this is a matter which concerns the Prime Minister, we trust that the same beneficial spirit will prevail in the appointment of Lords-Lieutenant also. It will be their duty to preside at the meetings of the association, and as the link with the landowners to help the association to obtain the necessary grounds for rifle ranges and manoeuvres, facilities which I am sure will be thus obtained much easier than before. Among the other duties of the association will be that of looking after the rifle clubs and the cadet corps within the county, to provide horses, arms, and equipments, and to supply all the requirements needed by its force on mobilisation; to pay allowances to the families of the men when called out on actual military service, and various other

duties, such as the registration of horses. in the county for the Regulars, and the obtaining of employment for soldiers after service with the colours. I mention these functions merely by way of illustration. The Army Council, as the chief authority, will determine what the association is to do and not to do. But there is one express limitation to the duties of the association. It is to have nothing to do with command or training. As to the rest of the matter, the Army Council will make regulations for governing the powers of these bodies, and will superintend them; but our wish is that the Army Council should not interfere with details. Decentralisation is better; and, if you get competent men, they work better when you give them their heads. We hope to have a proper body at the War Office to represent these associations and advise as to their functions, and through the Civil Member of the Army Council we shall make their voice heard on the Army Council. They will not be under the Chief of the General Staff or the Adjutant General, but under the Civil Member, who has not so many functions and who will have this largely as his chief business in the future.

MR. WYNDHAM (Dover): Will the associations have anything to do with contracts for forage and rations?

*MR. HALDANE: Yes, except when the forces are in camp. Then they are maintained in the same way as other forces; but in ordinary times, for the purposes of training, the supplies of forage, etc., will be obtained from these associations.

MR. SAMUEL ROBERTS (Sheffield, Ecclesall): How many sub-associations will there be for the county of York?

*MR. HALDANE: The Ridings are separate counties, and there will therefore be three separate associations.

Now I come to the second part of this Bill-that which deals with the raising and maintenance of the home defence force. In the case of the Volunteers the number has never been under the regulation of Parliament. The number of the Regular standing Army is defined by Parliament; but that has never been done in the case of the Volunteers, and the reason is that the Volunteers can go out at a fortnight's notice. It was, no doubt, thought that the Volunteer was not, properly speaking, a soldier, and that it was not necessary to put a check upon his numbers. But we think that we ought to follow the analogy of the Militia. Parliament has not specified the numbers of the Yeomanry. I have never understood the Yeomanry Act-one of the most obscure examples of legal drafting that exists. But in the case of the Militia, Parliament the Army Act, but in the Appropriation has hitherto defined the number, not in Act of the year. We propose that the numbers should be specified by Parliaterritorial force in all respects as one on ment. I think it is better to treat this which Parliament can keep its hand. Therefore, there will be a maximum, and I have indicated it at somewhere about 300,000. We do not fix it in the Bill, but it will be so in future. There will be, of course, new military regulations for this force, and we shall get rid of the three different kinds of regulations which the Auxiliary Forces possess at the present time. As regards enlistment, on this question there has been more criticism than on any other. What is the position of the Volunteer at the present moment? Nominally he enrols under an Act of

"Provided that it shall be lawful for the association of the county or any officer whom it may appoint, in any case in which it appears that the reason for the discharge is of sufficient

urgency, to dispense wholly or in part with both or either of the above conditions as to notice and payment."

Therefore, the Volunteers will be in at practically the same position as present; but just as the rules are an effective check on men going out arbitrarily, so we hope this provision will be. We had the power of defining the terms, if we wished; but we thought it better that they should take this elastic shape, and that the working out should be left to experience, rather than that a sliding scale should be drawn up in the Bill.

SIR HOWARD VINCENT: Will the military power or the county association have the decision on this point?

*MR. HALDANE: I hope the association will have a sub-committee constantly

sitting to deal with these matters.
provide that the association may delegate
the power to any officer; and in most
cases it will do so to the command
ing officer; and, of course, the Army
Council by regulations will say who
is to exercise this power on behalf of
It must be someone
the association.
always on the spot.

The next thing is the area of service. Instead of England and Scotland, we have taken the United Kingdom. That is the Militia area, and we think it the right area. The force is essentially a Home Defence Force; and, while have avoided in the Bill anything like a statutory encouragement to tions to serve abroad, we have left it open for individuals or units to volunteer in a case of great national emergency. They can go abroad if they wish; but the scheme and provision is for a force for home defence and it is upon that basis that the Bill is framed.