show that in all these Conferences this mentioned in the last debate with regard country has taken the lead in endeavour to certain large sheds. I am afraid ì ing to increase the restrictions which are omitted to notice that point in looking at placed upon this trade. In 1889 the the debate, and I did not receive any proposal of the British Government was notice from the most rev. Primate that that the duty should be 200 francs per he was going to raise it. But perhaps hectolitre. We were not very successful this information may to some extent on that occasion, because the duty bear upon the matter. The record of actually fixed was only fifteen francs. the value of spirits imported into the But in 1899 the proposal we then made Gold Coast as compared with the total was 100 francs, and we were successful in import in these Colonies was 9 per cent. obtaining a duty of seventy francs; and I in 1898 and 6 per cent. in 1904. In may say that that duty was only secured Lagos and Southern Nigeria the proporafter a prolonged negotiation lasting two tion in 1898 was 11 per cent. ; in 1904 months. Last year, when the Conference it was 9 per cent. met again, the proposal of the British Government was that the duty should be raised to 124 francs, and, after consider able discussion, it was increased to 100 francs. Therefore your Lordships will see that during the course of these Conferences we have steadily advocated an increase of duty, and have succeeded to a considerable extent in obtaining it. I might remind your Lordships that the duty I last quoted-100 francs per hectolitre is equal to a duty of 4s. 8d. a gallon proof strength. I rather think that in the debate in 1905 the most rev. Primate referred to 4s. as the duty which had been named by Mr. Chamberlain as the minimum, and which he, up to a point, at any rate, was prepared to accept as satisfactory. The most rev. Primate has asked why we should adhere to the minimum. My Lords, we do not adhere to the minimum. During the course of the period when the duty was fixed at seventy francs we raised ours gradually to ninetysix, and it stood at that figure until lately. I believe it is now placed at 110 francs per hectolitre at fifty degrees, and that, I am told, is equi valent to a duty of 5s. per gallon proof. I would ask your Lordships to observe that we have always been ready to accept the highest possible scale that we could obtain, and that therefore we have carried out to the best of our ability the first of the two main principles which we adopted for the guidance of the Conference-namely, that where this traffic in spirits existed it should be met by import duties. The most rev. Primate has asked me to take up again a point which was The second of the main principles adopted for the Conference is the prohibition of the importation of spirits into districts where the use of liquor does not exist or has not been developed, and we have an enormous zone of prohibition, 300,000 square miles in Northern Nigeria coming under that definition. We have also what are called the northern territories of the Gold Coast. I have only to say that we have no intention of departing in any way from the application to those regions of the principle of the Conference to which I have referred. а state With regard to the carriage by railway, I would point out that the railways are altogether in of infancy. The railway which has Lagos as its port is gradually approaching the frontier of Northern Nigeria, but I do not think it will be actually at work in the Protectorate for at least another year, and it will be still longer before it reaches the Niger, over which a very big bridge will have to be built before it can in any way get into contact with the whole of the large region north of the Niger. It is true and I should like to mention it because it may also have attracted the most rev. Primate's attention-that there have been proposals for another railway independent of the one of which I have been speaking, from Zungeru to a point on the Niger; but in that case also there is no crossing of the Niger, and, so far as any plans are yet formed, the railway will not connect with another railway system, but with a river service. In the Colonial Office we think that we shall have no difficulty in maintaining, as we intend to do, the prohibition of the introduction of this traffic into Northern Nigeria, or in preventing the use of the railways for this purpose. One suggestion was made three or four years ago that a sort of buffer zone should be established south of the frontier of Northern Nigeria; and it has also been suggested that we might refuse licences for the sale of liquor within this zone, and thereby increase facilities for checking any possible smuggling. I hope the the most rev. Primate will accept the assurance that it is our intention to prevent the traffic by every means in our power within the zone of prohibition. Upon the comparative cost of transit by railway and road it is difficult to be positive. On the railway the policy has been adopted of keeping the rates as high as possible without driving trade to the carriers. The most rev. Primate seemed to think that any apprehension on that score was unnecessary, but one case at any rate has been reported where traffic was being lost to the railway owing to a specially high rate on spirits. But the order issued in consequence was that rates were not to be SO lowered as to cause risk of the trade being carried into the prohibited zone, and that in no case were they to be lower than the highest rate charged on other articles. I may quote an instance of rates-palm oil 35s. per ton; salt 33s.; gin and spirits, 52s.that, I think, is a pretty heavy rate on the trade. excessive drinking in this territory. It is this gentleman's personal testimony that having been in Lagos every year except one since 1889, and having travelled up country and over the boundary, he could honestly say that to the best of his recollection he had not seen a score of intoxicated natives in fifteen years. According to a return obtained by Mr. Birtwistle from the Chief Registrar, the arrests for drunkenness in Lagos town during three years averaged only 75 per 1,000 of the population. If I have not given the most rev. Primate all the information he desires, I shall be only too pleased to endeavour to supplement it, but I think I have satisfied him that there is every disposition to use all the powers we have in the desired direction. I entirely accept the necessity for maintaining restrictions, and it seems to me, in spite of what the most rev. Primate has said, that there is evidence to show that the result has not been altogether unsatisfactory. The evidence of a distinguished Governor, Sir W. McGregor, has often been quoted. I have also a report from Mr. Birtwistle, commercial intelligence officer for Southern Nigeria, who says that in Lagos the average consumption of spirits works out at far less than that of the United Kingdom, making a liberal allow ance for the inhabitants cut off from supply. He further points out that in the United Kingdom also there is an enormous consumption of beer, and he adds that it cannot be said that there is! Lord Elgin. of State LORD STANMORE: My Lords, I should like, with the permission of my noble friend the Secretary for the Colonies, to put an additional Question to him arising out of the statement made by the most rev. Primate. I should like to know whether the Colonial Office has ever taken into consideration the possibility of enacting, in Southern Nigeria, legislation which has been found highly efficacious elsewhere with regard to this subject-I mean the rendering of irrecoverable in Courts of law. Spirits debts incurred by natives for drink are imported into the Colony in order that those who receive them may sell them. The vendor sells them because he hopes to receive a profit upon them, and if he knew that he could not recover the value of that which he sold I think he would be far less inclined to sell it. That has been found in another Colony the most efficacious way of preventing liquor reaching the natives. THE EARL OF ELGIN: I am afraid I cannot answer the noble Lord's Question off-hand. LORD STANMORE: I beg the noble Earl's pardon for asking it without notice, but it arose out of the debate. House adjourned at twenty-five minutes past Five o'clock, till To-morrow, half-past Ten o'clock. Nigeria, by Sir F. D. Lugard, K.C.M.G., C.B., D.S.O., late High Commissioner [by Command]; to lie upon the Table. BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND Copy presented, of Agricultural Statistics, 1906, Vol. XLI., Part II., Return of Produce of Crops in Great Britain, with Summaries for the United Kingdom [by Command]; to lie upon the Table. FACTORY AND WORKSHOP (PHOSPHORUS POISONING AT MESSRS. MORELAND'S MATCH FACTORY, GLOUCESTER). Copy presented, of Report to the Secretary of State for the Home Department, by H. H. S. Cunyngham, Esq., C.B., Assistant Under Secretary of State, and B. A. Whitelegge, Esq., C.B., M.D., His Majesty's Chief Inspector of Factories, on the circumstances attending a fatal case of Phosphorus Poisoning at the Match Factory of Messrs. Moreland and Company, Gloucester [by Command]; to lie upon the Table. PENAL SERVITUDE ACTS (CONDITIONAL LICENCE). Copy presented, of Licence granted to Jenny Lang, a convict under detention in Aylesbury Prison, permitting her to be at large on condition that she enter the Home of St. John the Baptist, London, S.W. [by Act]; to lie upon the Table. POST OFFICE (FOREIGN AND COLONIAL PARCEL POST). Copy presented, of the Foreign and Colonial Parcel Post Amendment (No. 21) Warrant, 1907, dated 14th February, 1907 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table. PAPERS LAID UPON THE TABLE BY THE CLERK OF THE HOUSE. Bridlington Piers and Harbour.-Copy of Abstract of the General Annual Account for the year ending 26th July 1906 [by Act]. Railway, etc., Bills.-Copy ordered, "of Report by the Board of Trade upon all the Bills and Provisional Orders of Session 1907 relating to Railways, Canals, Tramways, Harbours and Tidal Waters, and the supply of Electricity, Gas and Water."-(Mr. Lloyd-George.) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS CIRCULATED WITH THE VOTES. The Naval Manœuvres. MR. BELLAIRS (Lynn Regis): To ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether his attention has been drawn to the remarks of the Board of Admiralty in the Report on the Naval Manœuvres of 1906, wherein it is stated that the manoeuvres lost much of their value owing to the small and inadequate number of merchant vessels accepting the Admiralty terms, and that the 55 per cent. of loss inflicted is misleading, and affords little or no basis for calculation of the risks of shipping in war; and whether, under these circumstances, he will state the total cost of the Naval manoeuvres. (Answered by Mr. Edmund Robertson.) The total cost of the Naval Manoeuvres for 1906 was, approximately, £163,500. Dual System in Belfast Post Office. MR. SLOAN (Belfast, S.): To ask the Postmaster-General, if it is intended at an early date to abolish the dual system at Belfast, as it has been done in other large cities; and, if not, can he explain why. (Answered by Mr. Sydney Buxton.) It has been decided to abolish the dual system at Belfast, and effect has already been given to this decision in most respects, but it has not been practicable up to the present to carry out all the details involved by the alteration. The further measures required are receiving consideration. Money Required to meet Sales of CAPTAIN CRAIG (Down, E.): To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland how much money will be required to meet the sales of estates in Ireland at present in the hands of the Estates Commissioners or about which negotiations are proceeding; and how much money is available to meet these sales when completed. (Answered by Mr. Birrell.) The Department inform me that in 1904 experiments were instituted at Inny, county Westmeath, with a view to test whether Continental methods for the utilisation of peat as fuel could be successfully adopted in Ireland. In 1905 and 1906 Mr. A. (Answered by Mr. Birrell.) The Estates Lough, Killeshandra, conducted the exCommissioners have furnished the follow-periments at his own risk, the Department ing Return showing the figures up to the 16th instant allowing him the free use of the machinery and of the bog for the purpose. He was prepared to continue the experiments for a further period on condition that the Department would purchase a portion of the Inny bog and resell it to him on Land Act terms, and also sell him the plant at a valuation. Legal difficulties, however, prevented this proposal from being carried out, and the Department, with the concurrence of the Agricultural Board, finally decided that there was no other course but to terminate the experiments. The question of drainage had nothing to do with this decision. The Department did not initiate the undertaking as a commercial speculation, but simply as an experiment, their chief object being to enable the rural population to win their natural fuel at a less expenditure of labour, which could then be devoted to agricultural pursuits. The cost from 1904 to the present date was £1,884 6s. 6d., exclusive of expert advice. Crichton Estate, Roscommon. MR. HAYDEN (Roscommon, S.): To ask the Chief Secretary to the LordLieutenant of Ireland whether negotiations are in progress between the Estates Commissioners and the landlord of the Crichton estate in the county of Roscommon; and whether, before sanctioning any sale of this estate, the Commissioners will consider the advisability of acquiring all the grazing land in the hands of nonresidential tenants. (Answered by Mr. Birrell.) This estate has been purchased by the Congested Districts Board. The entire estate consists of tenanted land. Irish Land Act-Section 54. MR. FETHERSTONHAUGH (Fermanagh, N.) To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, whether his attention has been called to the fact that Section 54 of The Purchase of Land (Ireland) Act, 1903, causes much inconvenience by preventing landowners from borrowing money to stock and improve the lands they have purchased from their landlords, while it does not prevent the registration of judgment mortgages to any extent, and also that the latter part of the section, as to charges created by will, is unworkable, there being no duty to register the charge thrown on any person, and the will very often not being,proved within the limit of time provided; and will he introduce legislation to amend or repeal entirely the section. (Answered by Mr. Birrell.) As regards the first part of the Question, dealing with the limitations upon the borrowing powers of proprietors of holdings purchased under the Land Purchase Acts, the section of the Act of 1903 referred to was passed by Parliament with the general assent of all Parties (so far as I am aware), and I do not think any sufficient case has been made for repealing the provisions referred to. As regards the latter part of the section, dealing with charges created by will, a Bill has already been introduced to remedy the defects mentioned in the Question. Anhui Mining Contract. SIR EDWARD SASSOON (Hythe): To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether any written reply has been received to a Note on the subject of the Anhui mining final contract, presented by His Majesty's Minister in Peking to the Chinese Government on 24th October, 1905; and, in view of the fact that the Chinese have had, since 5th January last, presented to them a plan by which the London and China Syndicate offer the Chinese the opportunity to participate to the extent of 40 per cent. in the development of the Anhui mining concession, whether he would consider the desirability of sending a telegram to His Majesty's Minister at Peking to ask for the decision of the Chinese on this proposal, so that the London and China Syndicate may immediately commence work on the Anhui mining concession. (Answered by Secretary Sir Edward Grey.) The reply to the first part of the Question is in the negative. In regard to the second part, it is understood that, as a result of his instructions, His Majesty's Minister is doing all he can at Peking to secure the acceptance of the proposed arrangement for Chinese participation. In these circumstances, there seems to be no good reason for sending further instructions Majesty's Minister, who is, of course, keeping in touch with the London and China Syndicate's agents in China. |