I am bound to say that I have at the which is of no use to anybody except back of my mind a suspicion that the a few longshore fishermen engaged Scottish authorities and the Foreign in a decaying industry. Office are not exactly of one mind as to the manner in which the case should be dealt with, and if I may venture to give a word of advice I would recall the old saying attributed in the early days of the Volunteers to a member of that asking it in my name. There is one I have heard different opinions as to the effect of the reply given yesterday. Very acute minds have taken the view that the Scottish Office have abandoned their prosecution of these men on whom summonses were served for being on the vessels at the time the skippers were prosecuted. But I do not read it in that way. I think that the summonses now in the pockets of the men, who are walking about idle at Grimsby at this moment in consequence, are to be proceeded with under municipal law. If they are going to be withdrawn, notice should at once be given to the men, THE LORD CHANCELLOR (Lord LOREBURN): My Lords, it must have occurred to your Lordships that in the conversation, both to day and yesterday, you are discussing a subject which is to come before a tribunal next Monday in regard to the prosecution of certain individuals; and I cannot forbear from saying that in my opinion it is very inconvenient, and of the worst example, that Parliament should interpose, just before a Criminal Court is going to give its decision, for the purpose of discussing the very subject that is going to be tried before that Court. I respectfully submit that to the consideration of the whole House. I am going to say nothing in regard to the persons who are tried on Monday beyond this-that if they are innocent of any intention to break British law, I sincerely hope that British Courts will regard them with tenderness and consideration, as everybody would wish. But on the question of policy something surely ought to be said. What is the question? It has been created by an Act of Parliament passed in the year 1889. I make it no reproach to the noble Marquess that he was a party to the passing of that Act. No doubt he and his colleagues thought that it would work of itself. But it has not. By the Act certain local authorities in Scotland could close under a by-law all fishing within the waters of the Moray Firth between two headlands which were eighty-five miles apart. It is the obvious contention on the part of other nations--and it is very difficult to encounter-that if you try to make by-laws under your own law | I should not hesitate to say that they are in regard to waters within a line from using it to defy a British Act of Parliaheadland to headland eighty-five miles ment, and it is not right that they should apart you may be accused of trying to legislate for the high seas. You may also be charged with prohibiting other nations from doing what all other nations have a right to do-namely, to fish on the high seas. That is exactly what has happened. Certain Grimsby vessels were trans ferred to the Norwegian flag. It was then lawful to transfer vessels to the Norwegian flag. The vessels were owned by a Grimsby company, and the skipper and crew were nearly all Grimsby men. That was treated by the Norwegian Government as a fraud upon their law, and an Act was passed by the Norwegian Legislature five or six years ago to put a stop to the practice, because it enabled subjects of a friendly Power to violate the laws of their own country under colour of the Norwegian flag. Then came the prosecutions in Scotland last year, and it was determined by the Court that they had nothing to do except to obey the Act of Parliament. They have nothing to do with International law. If an Act of Parliament is passed here, unlike the United States, for example, Parliament is sovereign, and the Courts of law have nothing to do except to obey the Act. Therefore they did obey the Act, and convicted the foreigner because he was fishing within those prohibited waters. Shortly afterwards a number of Grimsby vessels came into the Moray Firth. It will not, I suppose, be disputed that they were, many of them, substantially British ships with British crews, who knew just as well what they were doing as anybody else. And they were doing what the foreigner was not doing. A foreigner might say, "I am not bound by British law on the high seas;' but a British subject cannot say that; his obligation is to obey the law whatever it is and wherever he is. Whatever may be the international question as between Norway and this country, as between a British subject and a British Court of justice, the duty of the subject is to obey he law of his country. If it should turn out to be the case-I am not going to assume it is-that these Grimsby people are habitually and knowingly using the Norwegian flag, Lord Loreburn. be allowed to do so. If it is true that there is a movement that a number of these ships should appear together by concert in the Moray Firth for the purpose of violating the law, sheltering themselves under the Norwegian flag, and invoking international law in order this House would say that they ought to justify themselves, what Member of innocent, or have acted unwarily, ought not to be prosecuted? Persons who are to be treated with tenderness, and, for my part, I think the people who are more to blame are those who instigate them. It is a shabby thing for British subjects to shelter themselves under the law of a foreign country, and thereby to get their own country into trouble by an abuse of the foreign flag, and although those who have been engaged as subordinates ought not to be excused if they have deliberately broken the law, I must say I should like to get at the principals. House adjourned at ten minutes before Five o'clock, till Tomorrow, half-past Ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tuesday, 12th March, 1907. The House met at a quarter before Three of the Clock. NEW WRIT. New Writ for the County of Northumberland (Hexham Division), in the room of the Hon. Wentworth Canning Blackett Beaumont, now Baron Allendale, called up to the House of Peers.—(Mr. Whiteley.) PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS. PRIVATE BILLS (STANDING ORDER 62 COMPLIED WITH). Mr. SPEAKER laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners' of Petitions for Private Bills, That, in the case of the following Bill, referred on the First Reading thereof, Standing Order 62 has been complied with, viz. :— Ordered, That the Bill be read a second time. Mr. SPEAKER laid upon the Table Report from one of the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, That, in the case of the following Bill, referred on the First Reading thereof, Standing Order 63 has been complied with, viz. :— Boston Spa Gas Bill. "That, in the case of the London County Council (Tramways and Improvements), Petition for Bill, the Standing Orders ought to be dispensed with:That the parties be permitted to proceed with their Bill, on the condition that the powers to construct Tramways Nos. 1a, 2, 2A, 2B, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 9A are struck out of the Bill:-That the Committee on the Bill do report how far such Order has been complied with." "That, in the case of the Cavehill and Ordered, That the Bill be read a second Whitewell Tramways Bill [Lords], the time. Grays and Tilbury Gas Bill.-Read a second time, and committed. Divorce Bills.-Mr. Attorney-General, Mr. Attorney-General for Ireland, Sir Edward Carson, Mr. Cave, Sir David Brynmor Jones, Sir John Kennaway, Sir Joseph Leese, The Lord Advocate, and Mr. Solicitor-General were nominated Members of the Select Committee on Divorce Bills.-(Mr. Attorney-General.) Metropolitan Police Provisional Order Bill; Marriages Provisional Order Bill. Read a second time, and committed. RAILWAY BILLS (GROUP No. 1). The CHAIRMAN of WAYS and MEANS informed the House that the Committee on Group No. 1 of Railway Bills not being appointed to meet until Thursday next, the parties promoting the Hull and Barnsley Railway Bill, which was set down for consideration upon the first day of the meeting of the Committee, had appeared before him and proved that the evidence of Zachariah Hornby, tug-master, Hull, was essential to their case, and that his attendance could not be procured without the intervention of the House. Ordered, That Zachariah Hornby do attend the Committee on Group No. 1 of Railway Bills on Thursday next, at half-past Eleven of the Clock. Standing Orders ought to be dispensed with-That the parties be permitted to proceed with their Bill on the condition that the following Amendments be made in Clause 6 of the Bill, namely at (a) The omission of the words " their own cost," in the second line of the Clause; (b) The omission of so much of the Clause as requires that the works shall be carried out under the superintendence and to the reasonable satisfaction of the engineer of the promoters, and provides for the determination of differences between the said engineer and the corporation by arbitration; and (c) The omission of Sub Clause (2) of the Clause relating to the payment by the corporation of liquidated damages. That the Committee on the Bill do report how far such Order has been complied with." "That, in the case of the Channel Tunnel Railway Bill, the Standing Orders ought to be dispensed with:-That the parties be permitted to proceed with their Bill, on the condition that all reference to the London, Chatham, and Dover Railway Company is struck out of Clauses 57, 58, and 59 of the Bill:-That the Committee on the Bill do report how far such Order has been complied with." That, in the case of the London LIQUOR TRAFFIC (LOCAL OPTION) (SCOTLAND) BILL. 31st December, 1906 [by Act]; to lie Account presented for the year ended upon the Table. UGANDA RAILWAY ACTS, 1896 AND 1902. Account presented, showing the money under the provisions of the Uganda issued from the Consolidated Fund Railway Acts, 1896 (59 and 60 Vic., c. 38), and 1902 (2 Edw. 7, c. 40), and of the money expended and borrowed, and securities created under the said Acts, to 31st March, 1906, together with the Report of the Comptroller and AuditorGeneral thereon [by Act]; to lie pon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 74.] ALIENS (NATURALISATION). Return presented, relative thereto Petition from Dunoon, in favour; to [Address, 28th February; Mr. Herbert lie upon the Table. Petition from Reading, in favour; to lie upon the Table. WOMEN'S ENFRANCHISEMENT BILL. Samuel]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 75.] SHOP HOURS ACT, 1904. Copy presented, of Order made by the Council of the Borough of Newport (Isle of Wight), and confirmed by the Secretary of State for the Home Defor certain classes of shops within the partment, fixing the Hours of Closing Borough [by Act]; to lie upon the Table. BOARD OF EDUCATION. Copy presented, of Judgments of the Divisional Court, Court of Appeal, and House of Lords in the case of the King v. the County Council of the West Riding to lie upon the Table. Petition from Gloucester, in favour; to of Yorkshire [by Command]; lie upon the Table. Post Office (Liverpool and Hong Kong Mail Contract).Copy ordered, "of the Contract, dated the 2nd day of February, 1907, with the Canadian Pacific Railway Company for the conveyance of the Mails between Liverpool and Hong Kong, for the period from the 7th day of April, 1906, to the 6th day of April, 1908, together with a copy of the Treasury Minute thereon, dated the 27th day of February, 1907."-(Mr. Runciman.) Copy presented accordingly; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 76.] ARMY (RECURRENT EXPENDITURE). Address for "Return showing approximately the Recurrent Army Expenditure provided for in the current Estimates (1907--8), classified (with due proportionate charges for administration, pension, transport, etc.) under the following heads and sub-heads(1) Mobile defence (a) Troops Abroad (exclusive of India) available for field service. (b) Troops at Home available for field service at Home or Abroad. (c) Troops at Home available for field service at Home only. (2) Fixed garrisons (d) Abroad (naval bases and coaling stations). (e) Naval ports at Home. (f) Commercial ports at Home, including Woolwich and London. (3) The annual interest on the Expenditure under the Military Works Loans Acts: |