criticisms with the idea of condemning the scheme, because he might be able to support it when he thoroughly understood it. All he wished was to be clear that certain difficulties which to him appeared obvious either did not exist or could be got rid of. *COLONEL HERBERT (Monmouthshire, S.) said he had a distinct recollection of reading about a policy put forward a few years ago by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Croydon and subsequently vindicated by him in a work of great interest which many members had read. That policy involved not the reduction of a small number of battalions such as had been carried out by the Secretary of State for War, but the destruction of no fewer than thirty-eight battalions of the line. right hon. Gentleman the Member for Croydon was that in throwing thirtyeight surplus battalions into the melting-pot and adding to that compound thirty-three battalions of the Militia he hoped they could after a certain time future county associations, for he could not follow where their duties would end and where the duty of the military commander would begin. Those associations were to be composed of various county interests, from the lord-lieutenant down wards. The Secretary for War in his statement said that they reckoned very largely upon the co-operation and support of the landowners of the country in working successfully the county organisations. Last session he listened day after day to very different expressions of opinion in regard to the landowners of the country, and he objected to the idea that at one moment the Liberal Party could consistently accuse the landowners of defalcations and shortcomings, and the next moment, when they wanted something out of them, applaud them in the House of Commons. He The vindication put forward by the believed they would forget the insults which had been heaped upon them and take their share in any scheme for the good of the nation. He understood that under the new arrangements the Militia, Yeomanry and Volunteers were all to be placed on an absolutely equal during which the heated feelings caused footing. There might be some difficulty in carrying out that feeling of equalitywhich would have to be real and genuine if these forces were to work together harmoniously and train at the same be an admirable reserve force for times place and time. He took it that each county was to be called upon to provide a certain quota of military force, but that seemed to him difficult of elaboration. In his own county they had an efficient regiment of Yeomanry and two good rural battalions of Volunteers, besides the local Militia. Would his county have to find its quota? Would they have to find so many Yeomanry, Volunteers, or Militia, or would they have to furnish so many more cavalry and so many less infantry? If so, what would become of the remainder of the county establishment? That seemed to him to be a point of real difficulty which required some elucidation. He did not intend taking advantage of a great many small points which he might easily have used to stir up feeling, but he recognised that the working of any really lasting scheme must be based upon the willingness of all arms to serve side by side in the second line. He had not made his Colonel Kenyon-Slaney. by that admixture might have cooled down-draw off a compound and label it "Short service Army, Croydon" or possibly "Belfast 1904," which would But of necessity in this country. significant figures in the Estimates-the men, but were neither "militia" nor cost of the personnel of the Regular Army amounting to £12,391,000, and another total for services, other than but subsidiary to, personnel, amounting to £12,499,000. There was a striking and significant symmetry about those figures. The former figure representing an 66 establishment," or paper force of men, might not be spent, because the men might not be recruited. The latter figure representing estimated requirements based on that "establishment," was sure to be spent, whether the men enlisted or not, whether in fact there was a real effective or only a paper establishment. Experience had shown it, and the right hon. Gentleman had admitted it. This brought them face to face with the greatest of all difficulties in connection with our military system-the waste caused by the discrepancy between the effective and the establishment strength of the Army. That it was a blot on our present system they must all admit. A method for overcoming that inherent weakness was to be found in changing voluntary service for compulsory service. If, as he ventured to believe, the country would not face that alternative-and even in the Army itself there was no general desire to change the voluntary for the compulsory system-surely his right hon. friend in framing his Estimates and drawing up the scheme he had submitted to them had done wisely in trying to overcome the great discrepancy between the real effective strength represented by men and the establishment or paper strength, which might be anything or represent no real strength whatever and ye cost money. That, he ventured to say, was the key to the Estimates and the real foundation of the scheme for reorganisation. The right hon. Gentleman had made a very consider able contribution towards the solution of the problem which had been the crux of many administrations. He had done something to give us a real instead of a fictitious strength both in men and in officers. In the training battalions which he proposed to give us he had not destroyed the Militia, but he had taken from it a constant source of grievance. The Militia had been bled white by the drawing off of the Militia reserve men, who were good, effective and efficient "reserve" and by the taking away of those men who enlisted in the Militia below the physical standard of the Army, but who were passed into the Army as soon as they attained that standard; with the result that nothing but the residuum was left for the Militia. This position had been dealt with in a very effective m .nner by his right hon. friend in the establishment of the so-called training battalions. They would be as he understood it, practically a recruiting machine. They would get their men and put them through a certain amount of military training, which now they were obliged to get in a Militia battalion, to the detriment of that battalion, and they might afterwards be attracted into the regular Army. With regard to the general system of administration under which it was proposed to deal with the auxiliary forces as a whole, they were not interfering with that portion of the Army which would be required for foreign service, but were making such arrangements that those serving at home would be able to serve in the manner which would be most suitable and convenient to their civil avocations. Surely that was common sense. He would like to refer to the valuable White Paper which the light hon. Gentleman had issued to them in the last twenty-four hours, showing what was going to be done in order to provide more officers. He ventured to say that that was the first practical step which had ever been taken to systematise the provision of officers in this country. He congratulated the right hon. Gentleman most heartily upon the way in which the work had been carried out by those to whom he had entrusted it. He would have liked the Committee to have gone a little bit further. He would like to have seen a little more imagination thrown into that proposal for a training corps which was to be based upon the public school cadet corps and upon the University corps. If they could only keep a hold upon the young men who belonged to these corps and bring them gradually into the service of the country, whether in the Regular Army or as supplemental officers, or in the Auxiliary Forces, they would be doing a great work and securing the best material for officers. If the University Volunteer corps and the public school cadet corps were united under a common name and brought under the direct patronage of the august head of the Army-were made royal cadets and given the right to wear the uniform appertaining to that branch of the service, they would get an indissoluble union between these boys and young men. It was mentioned by the right hon. Gentleman in his speech on Monday that the organisation of the new third battalions would be on the four company or "double company principle. That, he thought, indicated a step in the right direction. He was quite certain that for the organisation of the territorial infantry the four company battalion was undoubtedly the best. The squadron organisation of cavalry had been a comple e success, and for years thinking soldiers had advocated a similar reform of infantry organisation. He commended that suggestion to the right hon. Gentleman. He regretted the attack which the hon. and gallant Member for Central Sheffield had made on the Regular officers as not being fit to deal with the Volunteers. There were a number of officers bo h at home and in the selfgoverning Colonies whose whole duties ay wi h troops raised under the Volunteer system. They were not to speak in this House for themselves and it was to vindicate their character and the splendid service done by them that he ventured to charac ́erise those remarks as ungenerous. There were endless details which came to one's mind when considering the far-reaching scheme outlined by the right hon. Gentleman, and they would welcome the submission of that scheme in its complete form. speech and scheme of Army reform. He had hoped to hear something very different; but, taking the subject as it was, he looked upon it as a national and not a Party question, having in view the immense territories over which our flag flies. Knowing something of the vastness of the foreign armies with which he hoped we might never be involved, but with which we must be prepared to contend if necessity arose, it was with no light heart that he looked to the abolition of ten battalions of the line, and knowing, as he did, the good work they had done during the late war in South Africa, it was also with a feeling of sorrow that he looked to the contemplated des ruction of the Militia. He was for eighteen months in South Africa, and when he came across a Militia regiment he could not tell whether it was a Regular or a Militia regiment except for their badges-they acted with as much precision and showed as much general proficiency as the regiments of the line. Then as to the Yeomanry, he granted that the men who received only 1s. 4d. a day pay had some right to complain of the Yeomanry receiving 5s. per day, seeing that they could do as much good work as the latter. In fact the shillinga-day men often pulled the 5s. a day men out of difficulties. At the same time, patience and money had been spent in making the Yeomanry into efficient force, which was crippled or destroyed by a stroke of the pen. It might be that their patriotism was SO strong that they would continue to serve. Many a farm labourer, however, who would come out for training and pay another to do his work for him, could not afford to do so if this money at present received by him were taken from him. He did not know how the volunteers would like the scheme of a four years service and a fine of £5 for not completing that term. He thought that it would be wise on the part of the Government to let the volunteers be free to join and to leave in the future as in the past. The essence of volunteering was freedom. This Home Army was to be an Army on the cheap; he could wish that it would be an efficient Army. If they jumbled together the Militia, Yeomanry. and Volunteers, and mobilised them for a very now to be six months, after a war begun, they there was a danger of going too far; but would be courting disaster; if they were if a good scheme could be got for a afraid to mobilise the new force and territorial Army which might be relied make it efficient before the outbreak of on, there was a possibility of a reduction war, the country would be in a worse of expenditure on the Army being position than it was before. effected. The hon. Member for Shropshire had suggested that the territorial MR. COURTENAY WARNER (Staf- Army would not come to the scratch fordshire, Lichfield) said that although when it was required; but if we were he was a commanding officer of Militia involved in a great war, with the country he did not think that the pro- behind the Government of the day, there posals of the Secretary of State for would be no fear of there not being War would be the destruction of that plenty of volunteers from those troops force. The private Militiaman would to the Regular Army. The objection. have practically the same conditions of was that the territorial Army was only service as at present; and the only half-trained, but by the time that they difficulty would be in regard to the were called upon to replace the regular officers of the seventy-four battalions. troops they would have had six months He looked to that with some apprehen- of continuous training in addition to sion, because the Militia was already what they had before. The right hon. short of officers. A great number of Member for Dover said that there would the officers were, no doubt, not so good as be confusion when the regular troops they ought to be, but there were others were sent abroad and only the territorial who were good men. He believed that a Army was left at home. That occurred large number of subalterns and captains during the South African war when the who might be useful on the outbreak of late Government was in power; but if a war would be lost to the force under the late Government had embodied the new conditions. Another objection the Militia on the declaration of war to the alteration of the disposition of the the confusion and enormous expense seventy-four battalions was that the caused during the disastrous times of men when embodied would not be in that war would have been avoided. touch with their old officers whom they we had this territorial Army, at the end knew and who had know them for a long of six months troops could be sent abroad, time and who could trust each other. and there would be a very good force He trusted something would be done prepared for taking their place. In reto modify the scheme in that respect. regard to the "bridge" of seventy-four An hon. Member opposite had been very battalions he wanted to know exactly pleased when he got what he thought where they were in regard to them. One was a confession from the Secretary objection taken to them was that if they of State for War; but that was only were created there would not be room for the old confession that they should cut them in the new barracks. He did not 1 heir coat according to the amount of cloth think that was a valid objec ion, because they had. That was not the principle the moment war broke out there would be acted upon a few years ago when the room in the barracks. But where was the country went too far in over-spending cadre save in the persons of the major its resources. The predecessors of the and the four cap ains, who would be present Minister for War brought forward perfectly unable to control 800 or 1,000 great and expensive schemes, and the regular troops. But if war broke out result was that the voice of the country there would be a difficulty in finding had to be listened to in demanding officers. One thing the right hon. large reductions in Army expenditure. Gentleman was entitled to credit for He thought the Secretary for War was an increased supply of 100 subalterns to be congratulated on the from Sandhurst, but even then the reductions he had made, and they right hon. Gentleman would have diffiwere all grateful to the right hon. Gentle- culty in finding officers for these seventyman for having made them. [Opposite four battalions. He knew that the cries of No."] He knew that there answer would be that officers would be were many soldiers who thought that supplied from the territorial Army. But was 66 If even then, these territorial officers would not know the men or be in touch with them, and they would themselves be men of slight training and would not be so good in point of training as the men they were called upon to command. He thought it would be better if some scheme could be devised to give these men permanent officers or, at all events, officers who would be with them for at least some months or a year and thus be in touch with them. He did not think the scheme in regard to the Yeomanry had been quite fairly criticised. It was said that they were being deprived of 5s. 6d. and were only to have 1s. or 1s. 6d. a day. He believed that. the pay and rations would work out at 2s. 8d., and that there were stores and equipments which they at present supplied themselves, but which would in future be supplied by the Government, because the force was now to be treated absolutely as Regulars. Therefore the reduction was not 2s. 4d. but something considerably smaller. He thought everybody agreed when 5s. 6d. a day was fixed that it and it would be much more Regular forces which had been referred to; but what the Volunteer forces did sometimes complain of was a certain want of sympathy, and failure to understand all the conditions of their service; and no doubt Regular officers differed, as was the case in all things. The right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War had based his policy upon a hotch-potch of something like 300,000 men and was attempting to turn the Volunteer system into a compulsory system in two ways. In the first place they were to be enlisted for four years and a considerable fine was to be inflicted if a man left the service unreasonably. That condition in his opinion varied it from a Volunteer to a compulsory service. In time of war, moreover, it was hoped that this force would volunteer for foreign service, not individually, but by battalions or regiments or divisions. That was also a sort of compulsion as it did away with the individual position of the Volunteers. At the outbreak of war, moreover, they might be mobilised six months. They were told that the Militia was dwindling. Why was that? Because the stress of trade competition was so acute that the men who had hitherto joined the Militia had not the time now to do so and joined the Volunteers. If his battalion were asked to go out for six months training in time of war they could not do it. He would lose his best field officer and a considerable portion of his captains if that condition was insisted upon. Why? Because they were professional men. If a man was a doctor, a lawyer, or a wine merchant, he could not afford to give up his occupation for six months, as it meant the sacrifice of his living. This was recognised by the Committee on on the Training of Officers, who remarked that the requisite time must be given before men went into business, as they could not give up their time in later years. If this six months continuous training in case of war was insisted upon under a territorial system they would have to recruit the Volunteer force from a different class from that from which it was now drawn. The particular class of men to which he was alluding must be captured before they entered upon professional life. The patriotism of the |